Leeds: Wednesday
Jul. 24th, 2009 01:43 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
My two sessions were Wednesday afternoon, so I wanted to get to bed at a reasonable hour on Tuesday. After the fingerloop workshop, I went back to my room to prepare for my talk (which pretty much involved going through the printed copy of the relevant dissertation chapter, and underlining in red the bits I thought would be relevant to read, and then hoping that what I had was about 20 minutes worth! I was in bed with the lights off by 11:15, and I fell asleep quickly. So when an annoying noise blared into my consciousness, my first thought was that it was my alarm clock -- I'd acquired a new travel alarm clock for the trip, so this was only the third morning I'd used it. But then it occurred to me that, no, no alarm clock would be that loud. That was in fact the fire alarm going off! So I stumbled out of bed and took a few moments to dig through my bag for my flannel pants: And this is why you always bring PJ bottoms to conferences (I normally just sleep in a t-shirt) -- you never know when you're going to end up standing in the rain in your PJs at 1am with a bunch of other academics! Whatever was the cause, we weren't out in the rain for too long -- about 15 minutes later I was back in bed and asleep, thank goodness.
The two Wednesday morning sessions were by far my favorites that I attended -- they were two sessions on Gaelic names in Scotland, so I got to go as an onomastician, not as a logician. :)
Gaelic Personal Names in Northern England in the Central Middle Ages, Fiona Edmonds
Gaelic Personal Names in Medieval Scottish Charters, Roibeard Ó Maolalaigh
The Romance of Naming in 12th- and 13th-Century Scotland, Thomas Owen Clancy
At the beginning of Thomas's talk he said that he was interested in other examples of the adoption of "fanciful" names in other cultures, so during the discussion period I mentioned the discussions in the intro of Withycombe and R&W of the faddish feminine names deriving from Greek myth and also abstract Latin words in England in the 13th and early 14th century. Afterwards, he came over and thanked me for the reference, Matthew Hammond, the session chair, who was sitting in front of me, mentioned the name Hodierna, as an example of a fanciful English name that he hadn't seen elsewhere, and so I mentioned that the French form of it Odierne, shows up in the 1292 Paris census, and I think I also cited a couple other names and references and they're both looking at me with this marvelous look in their eyes, and Matthew said something to the effect of "Where you have published? I'm not familiar with your work" so I said that I just do this on an amateur level, and most of my work is just published on my website. Then I asked them if they were familiar with the Medieval Names Archive, and Thomas's eyes lit up and he was like "I just discovered it a few months ago! It's great!" So I told them -- "anything written by 'Aryanhwy merch Catmael'? That's me!" :) Anyway, it was lots of fun pretending to be a real onomastician.
Gaelic in Medieval Scotland: The View from Fife, Simon Taylor (the author of the multi-volume work The Place Names of Fife)
Gaelic in Medieval Scotland: Settlement Names in Menteith, Peter McNiven
Perambulating the Boundaries of Gaelic: Boundary Texts as a Witness to Language Change, Gilbert Márkus
In the afternoon were the session that I organized (and I gave a talk in) and the session that Stephen organized (and that I chaired). Both went well; we had larger audiences than I expected (nearly two audience members per speaker!).
Afterwards, I ran back to my room to dump my computer and to grab my coat, because then Stephen and I got a taxi to the train station and then took the train to York to attend a concert in the York Early Music Festival. The concert was in the York minster, which you reach by going through the cathedral. I had seen the cathedral from the outside, and in the dark, a few years ago when I went to the event in the Barley Hall, but I'd never been inside. OMG. Unlike other medieval churches where you can see just vestiges of the painting and the gilding, this cathedral has all of its paint and gold in place. It is overwhelming. It is astonishing. It is beautiful. And there's a row of the most wonderful statues of the kings of England -- each is extremely personalized, with the most delightful expressions on the faces. I would love to go back someday with my camera to try to capture just a bit of the glory of the place.
The minster is a small, round, high-ceilinged room that has excellent acoustics. Even though it was pretty full by the time we got there, Stephen and I got seats only three rows back, so we had a wonderful view of the musicians. The concert was performed by the group Alla Francesca, and this was the play list:
-Ovadia Hager, "Barukh Hagever", 12th C
-Anonymous/Moniot de Paris, "Shalfu tzarim", mid-13th C
-Guillaume de Machaut, c. 1300-1377: "Comment qu'a moy/Douce dame jolie"; "Puis que ma dolour"; "Honte, paour et doubtance"; "Mor suit se je ne vous voy"; "Dame a vous sans retollir", "De toutes flours n'avoit et de tous fruis"; "Dame, ne regardes pas"; "Joie, plaisence et douce norriture"
-Anonymous, "Nu tret herzuo der boesen welle", 14th C
-Wislaw von Rügen, c.1180-1250, "Ich warne dich"
-Neidhart von Reuental, c.1190-after 136, "Maienzit one nit"
-Frauenlob, ?c.1260-1318, "Myn wroud ist gar czugangyn"
-Anonymous, "Maria unser frowe kyrie eleyson", 14th C
-Anonymous, "Mamenyu, lyubenyu" (Yiddish)
-Anonymous, "Graff von Rom" (Ashkenazi)
-Anonymous, "Tif in veldele vakst a beymele" (Yiddish)
-Anonymous, "Unter a kleyn beymele" (Yiddish)
It was an amazing evening. The music was beautiful and so were the voices. My favorite song was "Nu tret herzuo der boessen welle", a penitent's song for the Black Death. And the most impressive part was watching one man play a pipe in one hand while beating a drum with the other; the drum was hanging from the wrist that was holding the pipe. I can't imagine being able to do two different melodies and rhythms at the same time like that!
The concert was/is to be replayed on BBCThree; I have no idea if it has already yet or not, but if it hasn't, anyone who is in the UK, I'd highly recommend trying to catch it.
The two Wednesday morning sessions were by far my favorites that I attended -- they were two sessions on Gaelic names in Scotland, so I got to go as an onomastician, not as a logician. :)
Gaelic Personal Names in Northern England in the Central Middle Ages, Fiona Edmonds
954: last Scandinavian king of York expelled.
Smith: Gaelic names in northern England introduced by the Scandinavians from Ireland. This has been question recently; Gaelic Scandinavian settlers came from the Hebridies instead. The speaker will argue in favor of Smith, but it's more complex than he thinks.
Northern English families using Gaelic names??
Gaelic Scandinavian influences in Yorkshire: G-S: place names have two levels of Gaelic influence in Yorkshire. Norse place names which have borrowed Gaelic elements, and Norse themes but in Gaelic construction. Has been argued that the latter are by Gaels who know Norse. 30 personal names show in the inversion compound place-names. In Yorkshire, the Scandinavian elite used Christian Gaelic names. Maybe second names used after baptism? Domesday survey of northern England has good info from Yorkshire. Norman scribe unfamiliar with Gaelic names: haphazard rendering. The summary was likely produced by a local, northern scribe. Main DB text rarely has patronymics. Only one known female personal Gaelic name from northern England: Bethoc.
DB survey: 23 Gaelic personal names, 56 landholdings. 1/5 of the names in the Yorkshire domesday. Lincolnshire, Cheshire, and primarily in Yorkshire. None in southern England. Also not uniformly found across the Scandinavian settlement. Also not even uniformly through Yorkshire. Large groups in Kentdale and Lunedale by Morecambe Bay, and also by Wensleydale/Uredale, and Airedale. Less in the East Riding, even though it has the most dense and most rich land holdings. Smith: Gaelic personal names in DB coincide with place names using Gaelic elements. Four Norse place names contain Gaelic personal names. Most powerful men in Wensleydale had Gaelic personal names.
Glunier/Glunien, Gilepatric/Ghilepatric, Gile, Gilemichel
Glunien's father was Eardwulf (A-S). Why does Glunien have a Gaelic name?
- not attested in any Scottish text
- found in Gaelic-Scandinavian dynastys
- translation of Norse 'iron-knee'.
Northern English scribes always used the Gaelic form, not the Norse form, of thename. Did the Gaelic form continue to be used because of its prestigious connections?
When did the first Gille-names show up? 2nd half 10th C? None before 950. So the use of Gilemichel/Gilepatric in Domesday shows knowledge of contemporary Gaelic practices.
Gaelic names were not imported into England and then fossilized, but continued to evolve, showing a continuing link between northern England and Ireland. Another factor: the mounting influence of the Scottish kingdom. Mid 12th C: Gilemichel proliferates in Yorkshire.
Lords of Gilsland: Buide (c1100) -> Gilla Isu (fl. 1128-58) -> Wesescop (fl. 11603) -> Waltheof/Val{th}io/fr -> (fl. 1180s). Place names in this area are Brythonic. (Guas-Escop; Brythonic equivalent of Gille. More popular in the north than in Wales, Cornwall, Brittany.)
Late 12th C: Gaelic names in northern England begin to disappear.
Gaelic Personal Names in Medieval Scottish Charters, Roibeard Ó Maolalaigh
W gains popularity after Norman Conquest. Shows external influence. Diss uses <w> in specific contexts. Does this express a non-Gaelic speaker's interpretation of the pronunciation of the names?
K only occurs between front vowels, i and e. Latin from the 6th C: that's when we first see K before e, i, y.
D pronounced dental fricative in 12th C: represented in <th>.
O for ua also shows a non-Gaelic speaker's impression of the sound, since <ua> is still retained in Gaelic.
Ie for ia: Anglo-Norman-Latin has influenced both Diss and the Book of Deer.
Broad and slender consonants: <-e> used with the broad consonants instead of <-a>. This is another non-Gaelic, Latin feature.
Diss: collapses <ae> and <oe>. This is possibly purely orthographic from Latin, which represents <ae> and <oe> as <e>. But there are other examples that show that perhaps the Gaelic has been changing, e.g., rhymes.
Mael: consistently spelled Mal in Book of Deer. Because the syllable is unstressed?
Ai > e: often before <l> and <r>. But could also be ai -> ae -> e (i.e., scribally).
81 examples in Deer of the lack of <i> before slender consonants. Again, influence of Latin?
Book of Deer: evidence of Scotticization of Gaelic.
The Romance of Naming in 12th- and 13th-Century Scotland, Thomas Owen Clancy
10th C royal/noble names:
Ireland: Mael Morda, Cellach, Congalach
Scotland: Mael Coluim, Dub, Sluagadach, (Uhtred, Gospatric)
Wales: Hywel, Maredudd, Cynan.
Move from names like this to more common names -- Europeanisation by the end of 12th/13th C:
William, Richard, Gilbert, Henry, Jocelin, Stephen
Margaret, Emma, Edith, Matilda/Maud
12th/13th C names to reckon with:
<Derder> (= Derdriu/Deirdre), wife of Gospatric 1138/9 - 1166: appears in three charters of Gospatric. It's the name of a heroine of early Irish myth/legend.
<Orabilis>, countess of Mar, 1150s-1180s: from <Orable>, the heroine of a chanson de geste of Guillaume d'Orange. This is the earliest example known to Matthew Hammond.
<Forbflaith>/<Fearbhlaidh>/<Forflissa>, countess of Atholl, 1240s: the heroine of "the romance of Cearbhall and Fearbhlaidh". Sellar: "Forflissa/Forblaith/Hvarflöð", in Regions and Rulers in Ireland. Not especially common in Ireland.
Corc, son of Alu/n, earl of the Lennox, ~1200: cf. Conall Corc, (prehistoric) ruler of Munster, ancestor of the Eoganacht rules of Cashel. This story is essentially made up by Muiredach Albannach Ó D´laigh in a poem for Alún.
Ness of Leuchars, fl. 1173x83, (father of Orabilis): cf. Nes(s), female name; also <Conchobar mac Nessa> (king of Ulster). Ness was Conchobar's mother; but if you don't know the story, perhaps it can be misinterpreted as a masculine name. A semi-familiarity with Ulster cycle texts.
Ferteth, mormaer of Strathaern (fl. 1160): Ferteth, Fercheth, Ferteht, Ferthet (= Ferchar, in recent scholarship. This seems unlikely).
Fer Diad, Cú Chulainn's foster-brother in Ulster Cycle.
Other examples: Tristrem, Ysenda c. 1200; Arthur, Merlin c1161; Odonel/Odinel de Umfraville, fl. 1150s, and his son Odinel, (from Otinel, a saracen, in the Charlemagne Cycle?); Roland, aka Lachlann son of Uhtred (+1200); Galiena, daughter of Waltheof (cf. Galiene, heroine of Arthurian romance _Fergus of Galloway_, by Guillaume le Clerc) -- in this case, it's not clear which way the direction of influence is.
Devorguilla, born after 1209/died 1290: her aunt was also named this. Named after another mis-guided heroine (daughter of the king of Scandinavia, falls in love with Cu Chulann).
generations:
Gille-Brigte, Affrica, Uhtred
Roland, Fergus
Alan, Thomas, Ada, Devorguilla
Thomas, Helen, Christina, Thomas, Devorguilla
Hugh, Alan, Alexander, John, Cecilia, Ada, Eleanor
Derbforgaill was in relatively common use in Ireland, more than a century before Devorguilla's birth.
At the beginning of Thomas's talk he said that he was interested in other examples of the adoption of "fanciful" names in other cultures, so during the discussion period I mentioned the discussions in the intro of Withycombe and R&W of the faddish feminine names deriving from Greek myth and also abstract Latin words in England in the 13th and early 14th century. Afterwards, he came over and thanked me for the reference, Matthew Hammond, the session chair, who was sitting in front of me, mentioned the name Hodierna, as an example of a fanciful English name that he hadn't seen elsewhere, and so I mentioned that the French form of it Odierne, shows up in the 1292 Paris census, and I think I also cited a couple other names and references and they're both looking at me with this marvelous look in their eyes, and Matthew said something to the effect of "Where you have published? I'm not familiar with your work" so I said that I just do this on an amateur level, and most of my work is just published on my website. Then I asked them if they were familiar with the Medieval Names Archive, and Thomas's eyes lit up and he was like "I just discovered it a few months ago! It's great!" So I told them -- "anything written by 'Aryanhwy merch Catmael'? That's me!" :) Anyway, it was lots of fun pretending to be a real onomastician.
Gaelic in Medieval Scotland: The View from Fife, Simon Taylor (the author of the multi-volume work The Place Names of Fife)
Gradual replacement of Gaelic place names with Scots (affected by identity of landholders and proximity to boroughs).
How did Gaelic (a q-Celtic language) come to Fife in the first place? Look at just the placenames: There is a stratum of place-names which have p-Celtic elements:
- *aber 'river- or burn-mouth'
- *cuper 'confluence' (only p-Celtic element to appear only north of the Forth)
- *mig 'bog, marsh'
Larger corpus which are wholly q-Gaelic in structure, but containing p-Celtic loan words, Pictish loan-words in Gaelic:
monadh 'hill(-ground), upland, muir, rough-grazing' - Kinninmonth, Kilmundy
pett 'land-holding, farm' 0 Pittenweem, Pitcorthie
Fife Place-names c.1000-c.1070
All from Lochleven Property Records:
Kirkness (ON)
*Pettenmochan (G with Pic loan-word)
Inverkeithing (G with Pict. or earlier hydronym)
Monlochty (G with Pct. hyd.)
Bogie (G or Pct.)
Markinch (G or Pct.)
Auchmuir (G. 'big ford')
Scoonie (G. or Pct.)
before c.100:
*Kinrymont (G with Pct placename), ~747
Loch Leven (G with earlier hydr)
?Inverdovat (G with earlier hydr)
Naughton (G. with Pct. pers.name=Nechtan's ford)
Ceres (G.)
Mucross (G.)
Largo (G.)
A large percentage of these Gaelic names show a weighting towards Pictish.
1204x1228: Petclochin (pit + G clach 'stone'), named for a stone dated to around late 9th/early 10th C.
W.F.H. Nicolaisen, Scottish Place-Names (1976/2001).
Taylor argues that Pit/Pet names are relatively later -- dating from the 9th C, rather than being early Pictish names. Some Pit/Pet names contain Norse elements, which reinforces this.
Another Pitlochie: 1235x1260 Petclokyn. The standing stone there is early and has an early Pictish design.
Element: <cill> 'church'. In Eastern Scotland, <cill> names were coined relatively early (8th C); restricted distribution, and also based on analysis of the saint's names used as the specifics.
Kinglassie, Methil, Fettykil, Kilgour, Kilconquhar, Kilduncan, Kilminning, Kilrenny, Kinglassie (2nd), Kilmany, Kilmaron. 7 of these were names of parishes. Perhaps strongly influenced by St. Andrews?
A vector of Gaelic into Fife in the Pictish period (8th-9th C): the church -- probably the Columban (Gaelic-speaking) church. But still: a long coexistence of Gaelic and Pictish, esp. since they have a shared vocab and structure. Some cognates would've been indestinguishable (e.g., <dune> 'hill fort'). Pictish probably continued into the 10th C.
Three earliest Germanic names: Kirkness (c1050), Gatemilc (1128x1131), Hunthanch (1177x1185).
Gaelic in Medieval Scotland: Settlement Names in Menteith, Peter McNiven
Gaelic lasted as a living language longer in Menteith than in Fife (through the 19th C).
Lots of Gaelic <cill-> names in Menteith, both cities and larger regions (e.g., Kilmadock). Gaelic replaced a Brythonic language (either British or Pictish).
Two elements not found in Fife but found in Menteith:
- earann = angl. arn.
two distinct clusters in two different parishes: Inchmahome and Galloway.
- gart 'enclosed field': 24 in Menteith, 150 from Lochlomond, Glasgow, and one other point to make a triangle. Why are there none in Fife?
Menteith has very few Pet/Pit names; less Pictish than Fife.
21 Ballach- names in Menteith.
Mechanisms of language change in Menteith:
- marriage of the heiresses of the earls to Scoto-Norman lords in the 12th C, and also marriage of them to Scottish lords in the 14th C.
- the church: Scots and Latin speaking clerics.
- nearness to the royal castles in Stirling and the Lowlands.
- trade with the Lowlands: Menteith cheese was much prized in the Lowlands.
- post reformation changes:
- government statutes (James VI)
- building of the road north via Doune and Strathyre
- Organisations such as the SSPCK (missionary work)
- literary tourism, e.g., because of Walter Scott's _Lady of the Lake_: Loch of Menteith -> Lake of Menteith.
Even in the Lowland portion of Menteith, the place names are predominantly Gaelic. Very rare to find a Scots placename before the 15th C. Affixes such as Easter, Wester, Upper, Nether, etc., but these are concentrated in the eastern part. Scots -toun names show up in the 15th C.
-toun names near Doune and Thornhill: many of them have Gaelic elements in them: Mackeanston - Donald McCane 1480; Mackreisten - MacRae; McOrriston - Thome and Forsith McCorane, 1480; Munnieston - G. manach?; Murdieston - Murdaco Smith, 1480-1488; Johanni Murthoson, 1484; Murtho Kesskisson, Kessok Murthauson, 1486. First or second gen. descendents of Gaelic speakers.
-toun names near Doune and Thornhill: many of them have Gaelic elements in them: Mackeanston - Donald McCane 1480; Mackreisten - MacRae; McOrriston - Thome and Forsith McCorane, 1480; Munnieston - G. manach?; Murdieston - Murdaco Smith, 1480-1488; Johanni Murthoson, 1484; Murtho Kesskisson, Kessok Murthauson, 1486. First or second gen. descendents of Gaelic speakers.
Gaelic place-names do not stop being coined in the later period: Ballacavis 1670, Ballicaine 1677, Ballachcaush 1782, Ballecauich 1783 (ScG baile + pn McCawis); now a field name. Donald McCawis on record from 1480.
Perambulating the Boundaries of Gaelic: Boundary Texts as a Witness to Language Change, Gilbert Márkus
1. chronology of language change
2. when was the area bilingual? area/population
3. what social and economic pressures affected the change?
4. Where were the Scots/Gaelics boundaries.
Caiplie, Kilrenny, c. 1235: placenames in Caiplie which are near Crail are Scotticized, places which are further away are Gaelic.
Trostory (Gaelic); duas Trostoryis (Scotticized).
in sicketum de Alde Caplawin - "in the burn of the Burn Caplawin". Later called Caplawynis Burne. The Scots names were often provisional/temporary; only Leys (related to Estreleys) remains, as a farm name.
Another parish, Kingoldrum: Scots translations of Gaelic place names:
- Hachethunethouer = achadh 'field' + meadhonach 'middle' (reading methonec(h) for unethouer). "Hachethunethouer quod Anglice dicitur Midefeld" or Midefeyld 1256. Mydfeild 1478. Out of all the Gaelic place names, this is the only which is translated. Why?
- Monboy = mo\ine bhuidhe 'yellow bog': translated in 1458 as "yalow pwylle". The 1458 charters offers lots of translations: 9 out of 26 Gaelic place names.
- Myllaschangly 1458, "that is to say Scottishmyll", <Molendini Scoticani> 1256. A Scottish type of mill? A mill owned by a Gaelic speaking family?
- Viam Scoticanum 1253; Scotisgait 1458.
1458 charter:
Monebrek -> Morass
Aithyncroch -> Gallow Burn
Tibernoquhyg -> Blind Well
Carnfothyr -> Pounder's Cairn
Claschnamoyll -> Meikle Hill
Claisch -> Reesk
Haldyrischanna -> Gled Burn
Needed to show historical connections? The Scots forms representing current use and the Gaelic forms showing older usage?
1458 perambulation charter: done by Malcolm abbot of Arbroath, became abbot in 1456. From 1178 to the present dates, Malcolm is the only abbot of Arbroath to have a Gaelic name. Was he perhaps a Gaelic speaker, and that was his interest in translating the Gaelic names into Scots?
Balinclog 1226 = *baile a' chluig (earlier clog) 'farm of the bell'.
1226 record is the only one; but soon after that, we find Clockston = *clockis toun. Has 'clog' been assimilated to 'clock'? Is 'clock' a reference to the bel?
Limits of interpretation:
1. charters are selective, not necessarily representative
2. apparent bilingualism may represent a local bilingual community *or* a bilingual scriptorium.
3. personal factors -- personal interest of Malcolm in 1456?
4. apparent translation may be new coinage.
In the afternoon were the session that I organized (and I gave a talk in) and the session that Stephen organized (and that I chaired). Both went well; we had larger audiences than I expected (nearly two audience members per speaker!).
Afterwards, I ran back to my room to dump my computer and to grab my coat, because then Stephen and I got a taxi to the train station and then took the train to York to attend a concert in the York Early Music Festival. The concert was in the York minster, which you reach by going through the cathedral. I had seen the cathedral from the outside, and in the dark, a few years ago when I went to the event in the Barley Hall, but I'd never been inside. OMG. Unlike other medieval churches where you can see just vestiges of the painting and the gilding, this cathedral has all of its paint and gold in place. It is overwhelming. It is astonishing. It is beautiful. And there's a row of the most wonderful statues of the kings of England -- each is extremely personalized, with the most delightful expressions on the faces. I would love to go back someday with my camera to try to capture just a bit of the glory of the place.
The minster is a small, round, high-ceilinged room that has excellent acoustics. Even though it was pretty full by the time we got there, Stephen and I got seats only three rows back, so we had a wonderful view of the musicians. The concert was performed by the group Alla Francesca, and this was the play list:
-Ovadia Hager, "Barukh Hagever", 12th C
-Anonymous/Moniot de Paris, "Shalfu tzarim", mid-13th C
-Guillaume de Machaut, c. 1300-1377: "Comment qu'a moy/Douce dame jolie"; "Puis que ma dolour"; "Honte, paour et doubtance"; "Mor suit se je ne vous voy"; "Dame a vous sans retollir", "De toutes flours n'avoit et de tous fruis"; "Dame, ne regardes pas"; "Joie, plaisence et douce norriture"
-Anonymous, "Nu tret herzuo der boesen welle", 14th C
-Wislaw von Rügen, c.1180-1250, "Ich warne dich"
-Neidhart von Reuental, c.1190-after 136, "Maienzit one nit"
-Frauenlob, ?c.1260-1318, "Myn wroud ist gar czugangyn"
-Anonymous, "Maria unser frowe kyrie eleyson", 14th C
-Anonymous, "Mamenyu, lyubenyu" (Yiddish)
-Anonymous, "Graff von Rom" (Ashkenazi)
-Anonymous, "Tif in veldele vakst a beymele" (Yiddish)
-Anonymous, "Unter a kleyn beymele" (Yiddish)
It was an amazing evening. The music was beautiful and so were the voices. My favorite song was "Nu tret herzuo der boessen welle", a penitent's song for the Black Death. And the most impressive part was watching one man play a pipe in one hand while beating a drum with the other; the drum was hanging from the wrist that was holding the pipe. I can't imagine being able to do two different melodies and rhythms at the same time like that!
The concert was/is to be replayed on BBCThree; I have no idea if it has already yet or not, but if it hasn't, anyone who is in the UK, I'd highly recommend trying to catch it.
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Date: 2009-07-25 09:30 am (UTC)