Women in [Academic Field Where Women are Underrepresented]

[aryanhwy]

This evening was the Elsevier-sponsored "Women in Computability" workshop, which I went to because even though I'm not in computability, I did receive one of the Elsevier travel grants are part of their initiative to encourage women in computability. There were two invited speakers, who spoke about their experiences in grad school and academia, as well as with having children and how this related to their research and academic progress. The description of the workshop said that "Women are significantly underrepresented at all levels of the academic pipeline, while the very few female students involved in Computing or Mathematical Research need to be aware of their talent and role in the scientific community. Indeed, the scarcity of senior women academicians produces the lack of critical information about the culture and content required for pursuing careers in the mathematical careers." There wasn't anything particularly new or novel in the talks, which is rather what I expected, but nevertheless I have, and had even before the workshop, when I spent some time discussing the concept with Jesse yesterday, some quite strong opinions about it and like initiatives. I won't go into most of them here, though suffice it to say that I'm sure that if I did air them, many people on my flist, women and men, would probably find my views fairly anti-feminist. But there one I want to primarily discuss is in the second sentence quoted of the workshop description. I object to the idea, which may or may not be what was intended to be expressed by said quote but which is nevertheless contained in it, that women in academia can only learn how to be good academics from other women. My Ph.D. supervisor was a man, and I learned a tremendous amount from him about how to be a good academic. He is an excellent example not only of how to do research, but many other things such as how to write grant reports, how to be diplomatic, how to differentiate cranks for genuine researchers, how to not get bothered by the things that don't matter and how to get worked up about the things that do. I don't feel like I was unable to learn from him how to be an academic, that I didn't get "critical information about the culture and content required for pursuing careers in the mathematical careers". Now, if you qualified the sentence so that it was not just about being a good academic, but about being a good woman academic, then I agree -- this is probably something that can best be taught to women by women. However, I object to making a goal of being a good woman academic. I'd rather be a good academic, tout court, and then it won't (or shouldn't -- but that's another topic altogether) matter that I am a woman academic. I feel about this much the same way that I did about the secondary-ed program at Madison, which I quit before I even joined: I felt like I would be a much better teacher if I was actually taught the subject I was going to be teaching, rather than four semesters worth of "classroom methods" and "crowd management techniques". Similarly, I feel like if I can learn how to be, if I can get good examples of how to be, a good academic, then it will fall out of that that I will be a good woman academic, whereas being a good woman academic doesn't necessarily mean that I will be a good academic. And frankly, for the former, and for myself personally, I don't see the need to learn how to do this from a woman. I've never been interested in participating in a mentoring program of any time, as a mentee (though I've volunteered to be a mentor), but even if I did feel the need for a formal mentorship beyond what I got from my supervisor, I just don't see myself ever seeking out a woman for such mentorship because she was a woman. Because she was a leader in my field, because she was a proven researcher, because of reasons such as that, but I don't think gender needs to be a primary deciding quality.

Related to this, though perhaps only tangentially, is another objection that I have to this type of initiative -- not, I should make clear, to the outcome of the initiative, but to the way it is marketed. Part of the Elsevier initiative to encourage women in computability is to ensure there is free childcare at CiE. Make no mistake, I think this is an excellent and admirable service they're providing. However, I object to it being singled out as an initiative to help women. I think that selecting out women to give them special services does not in fact, in the long run, help their cause towards equality. It would be much better to offer free childcare at a big conference like this because parents need someone to take care of their children -- not just because women do. Marketing this service as part of an initiative to encourage women reinforces the stereotype that of women as primarily homemakers/caretakers. It also overlooks (a) fathers who are single parents, (b) academic men who have working wives who can't take care of their children when their husbands go off to conferences, (c) etc. So, if you want to help promote women in [academic field where women are underrepresented of your choice], to promote their equality with me, then recognize that women aren't the only ones who may be the primary child carers, and offer your childcare service as an equal-opportunity, so to speak, initiative. In fact, it will probably benefit more women then men, and so have the desired effect. But if in the way it is presented you can recognize the general fact about the difficulty of balancing children and academic life (or indeed children and pretty much any type of career), then you are not highlighting out a stereotype of women, and this in and of itself has got to be beneficial.

Hunh, who knew that they provided soapboxes in the hotel room? How convenient. Luckily there's only this one, otherwise I'd have to get down off it and climb up on the next and go through all the other issues that I have with this type of initiative. (Maybe that will be time for another post.) The question is, do I continue being loquacious and write up a post about yesterday, or do I sign off here to expend my words in my written diary covering a number of unrelated subjects that have been festering underneath my fingertips for the last few days, or do I actually try to get to bed at a decent hour, since I've got to be up for a 9:00am tutorial again?

Comments

[tedeisenstein.livejournal.com]

. However, I object to making a goal of being a good woman academic. I'd rather be a good academic, tout court, and then it won't (or shouldn't -- but that's another topic altogether) matter that I am a woman academic.

Something both my mother (a history professor of long standing) and my sister (an independent scholar of long standing) (both PhD's in history) would most heartily agree with. They're historians, teachers, academics, who happen to be women, not Women Academics. And I agree with it too, but I'm neither a woman, nor particularly an academic, teacher, or historian.

Be good at what you do, and who gives a flying fig what sex you are? (Or, well, no matter if you even have a sex, for that matter....)

[massaria.livejournal.com]

As an academic who happens to be female in a field with few women, I agree with you 100%. I object mightly to the suggestion that to be a good academic I needed to be mentored by a woman. All of the people that I learnt from were men. Not sharing a set of genitalia did not cause a problem with their ability to teach them. Furthermore, the most successful students I have mentored were men who fortunately also failed to believe that the lack of similar genitalia prevented me from being a good choice to learn from.

It annoys me no end that there is a perception of being a good "female academic". Again, that is using the qualifier of "female" to suggest that as a woman and an acadamic you should aspire to something slightly less, where slightly is undefined. I would rather be a good academic. Without any implied gender difference.

And, yes, I could rant about this topic along similar lines for an extended period.

[wolverine-nun.livejournal.com]

I agree with all you say. I'm open to the idea, though, that other women might feel differently. Other women might feel a more distinct need to have some facet of their femininity foregrounded. I'll watch to see if any comment here :)

I must tell you my "precious gem" story some time. You're a precious gem! My best academic mentors have all been men, in science that'll pretty much inevitably be the case still. And the child care thing, yes, market it as "for all parents" even though, in stark reality, it'll be mostly mothers.

Oh, and ditto shopping malls which only have baby changing areas in the women's restrooms. Oy!

Recently I've been following the blog "On becoming a domestic and laboratory goddess" which you might enjoy. Recently there was a bit of a tizz about women in academia, you can scroll back a bit. http://scienceblogs.com/isisthescientist/

Do you or do you not get an orange vuvzela...

[aryanhwy.livejournal.com]

I'm open to the idea, though, that other women might feel differently. Other women might feel a more distinct need to have some facet of their femininity foregrounded.

Definitely -- this is one reason why I tried to make sure I couched all my statements with "for me" and "I think". And for those for whom this support is beneficial, I am all in favor of such initiatives. I just think some of them could be improved by focusing less on the gender issue.

[aryanhwy.livejournal.com]

Do you or do you not get an orange vuvzela...

Don't know yet...The Netherlands plays Brazil this afternoon and I will be back at the hotel watching the game instead of attending the post-lunch sessions. We'll see how it goes.

And thanks for the blog link, I will have to check it out.

[wolverine-nun.livejournal.com]

Oh, yes, I'm right on top of the time table, don't you worry. Ghana also play Uruguay today. Not only is Ghana African (and hence to be supported), but they are playing the people who knocked OUR BOYS out of the tournament. I hope Uruguay gets pulverised. But they probably won't...

[aryanhwy.livejournal.com]

I'm rooting for Ghana as well. How cool it would be if they could make it to the final?

[wolverine-nun.livejournal.com]

later
ooh, and the orange vuvuzela moves one step closer!

[aryanhwy.livejournal.com]

As much as I'll be rooting for Ghana to win tonight, I'm pretty confident that we'll beat whoever wins. The final is getting tantalizingly close.

[eleyne-de-c.livejournal.com]

I certainly got sick of being targeted as a "woman in computing". In the end I used to say "if you want to know why women don't do computing you should ask the women who don't do computing not the ones who do."

However, as a secondary school teacher I have to say the subject content is the easy bit - it's classroom management and so on that is the tricky bit.

[world-rim-walke.livejournal.com]

I don't see your views as being anti-feminist. They seem mostly equalitarian.

[aryanhwy.livejournal.com]

It's 'cause I didn't go into all the other opinions I have, some of which are more anti-feminist than the these... :)

[maryf.livejournal.com]

I totally agree with you - I have exactly the same view about all the "Women in Engineering" initiatives I get dragged in to at work. I really hate the idea that women need to be treated differently in some way to the male engineers

[pezzae.livejournal.com]

Hello, I'm Don's wife - he sent me the link to the post saying I might be interested. I am also an academic, though in a moderately well-balanced field. (By which I mean we have many female students, Level As and Bs and a few Cs and Ds, and barely any women at Professor level...)
I think a lot of the trouble with women-in-X events is that they confuse two things. One is women-in-field-that-men-think-women-can't-do. And one is primary-carer-in-career-that-is-not-set-up-for-primary-carers.
The first problem is possibly easier to deal with, or at least I know many women who are currently doing it. They either become one of the boys, don't actually identify particularly as a 'woman-in-X', get accepted, and don't notice anything particularly off-putting about the male culture in their field. Or they are just really really good at what they do, so that they can get away with wearing skirts, and the men around modify their workplace culture/behaviour. The women I know who take the first tack rarely seem to feel the lack of female mentorship, whereas the women on the second path seem to notice it more.
Where I think mentors and senior academics in similar circumstances is particularly important though is the primary-carer-in-academia role. It makes a huge difference to have a level C in my research group who is a mum, and knows what it's like to be a mum. Sure, the senior men have families and THINK they know what it's like, but they don't. If they need to work late on a deadline, they don't have to stress about picking up their children from daycare. They don't need to worry about trying to time pregnancies and maternity leave around semesters or grant writing season (and do you have the kids during your PhD, your postdoc, or when you're established on tenure track...). They don't need to worry that if people find out they have a child, people will think they aren't serious about their career. They don't need to balance breastfeeding and maintaining their profile at conferences. Their partners follow them overseas for their career, because everyone knows that the man's career is more important... And so academia continues to be a place where to get to the top you have to travel frequently, change universities every 5 years to progress faster, and spend significant amounts of time outside your job doing unpaid work - all of which places much greater strains on mothers than on fathers, or women without carer responsibilities. Balancing those pressures and figuring out how to be a decent mother as well as a decent academic is something that most male academics simply do not have a clue about.

[aryanhwy.livejournal.com]

Hi, pezzae, thanks for reading and commenting!

they confuse two things. One is women-in-field-that-men-think-women-can't-do. And one is primary-carer-in-career-that-is-not-set-up-for-primary-carers.

I think you're totally right here. Much of the advice that was given at the workshop I went to was geared towards women who had or were planning to have kids. So, much of it was, at my current stage of life, irrelevant for me. Though I did find it interesting that (a) almost all of the women in the audience (of all ranges of ages and career statuses) were married -- something that I think reflects the relatively higher percentage of Americans in the audience than the average conference I go to -- and (b) all of us were married to other academics, whereas of the few men in the audience who were married, only half of them were married to other academics.

[holyschist.livejournal.com]

(b) all of us were married to other academics, whereas of the few men in the audience who were married, only half of them were married to other academics.

This is a well-documented statistical trend; it's part of why male academics are more likely to have an at-home spouse, and it's part of why the job search is generally more constrained for female academics (more of them have the problem of needing a spousal job offer as well). (On the other hand, academics often have more flexible schedules, so dual-academic parents can do creative child-juggling in a way that say, an academic-industry couple might not be able to. I've seen some very complicated childcare juggling in the dual-academic couples I know, both student and professor. But they may be working longer hours.)

[holyschist.livejournal.com]

I've seen childcare services marketed generally at some conferences.

As far as mentoring and being a woman academic versus "an academic"--sure, teaching how to be a good researcher has nothing to do with gender. But how to navigate sexist waters--and there are sexist waters in a lot of field--is something I have rarely found male academics to be very helpful for. There are exceptions, and there are female academics who can't provide that kind of guidance. But I have certainly appreciated the professors I've had who've warned me about potential pitfalls.

And I do think that if a field is severely gender-imbalanced, that probably says something unpleasant about its culture, and that kind of culture is not going to be changed by the women who slog into it anyway, willing to put up with the crap for love of the subject. I think that a deeply sexist culture reduces quality in a lot of fields because it leads to narrow thinking and only allows input and innovation from certain people, so it benefits everyone to change that kind of culture.

[aryanhwy.livejournal.com]

Over the rest of the conference I had conversations on this topic with a number of different people, and one further thing that occurred to me is that if the mentoring was marketing to all young researchers in the field, not just to women, though it was made clear that there would be women mentors for potential women mentees who specifically wanted one, then one positive benefit from this could be the assignment of female mentors to male mentees. I think that one way to change a gender-imbalanced academic culture is not so much to target the underrepresented the gender (as I think eleyne_de_c said in her comment "Don't ask me about being a woman in science, ask a woman who isn't in science!") but the overrepresented one -- if more young men had strong female role models in their field mentoring them, that would go a long way to making the occurrence of women in that field more natural and more ordinary, and hence make them more likely to encourage that when they are in a position of authority/giving jobs.

[holyschist.livejournal.com]

I think I would draw a distinction between professional and personal mentoring--they don't necessarily come from the same people, and not everyone needs both.

I do not see mentoring as a key way to change the cultures of fields which are hostile or unwelcoming to women and minorities--it's important for most students for a variety of reasons, but I don't think mentoring does much to affect an overall culture (although I agree that young men having female mentors can be helpful as far as attitudes go).

Dreamwidth is a good example of a fundamental culture change. It's one of the two Open Source projects with the highest percentage of women developers--not because they targeted women specifically, but because they set out to be welcoming and supportive of new developers, including people who had never programmed before. And they set up a culture where people weren't routinely mocked for errors or derided for lack of experience. Presumably this kind of environment is also more pleasant and constructive for men. It's also had some positive side effects for the actual development, most notably that minor bugs--the kinds of bugs that often go unpatched on projects worked on primarily by experienced developers--get patched quickly because they're viewed as great training for new developers.

I think the reason these things often get framed as being about women and minorities is because men and majorities are doing okay in these fields, as a group, so positive change benefits women and minorities the most. But it ultimately benefits everyone.